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	<title>Comments on: The Argument from Desire</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theforwardlook.com/2009/04/the-argument-from-desire/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theforwardlook.com/2009/04/the-argument-from-desire/</link>
	<description>A focus on the Christian's future Hope</description>
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		<title>By: Sylvia</title>
		<link>http://www.theforwardlook.com/2009/04/the-argument-from-desire/comment-page-1/#comment-867</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylvia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theforwardlook.com/?p=670#comment-867</guid>
		<description>Wow, very nice post.  In response to Paul&#039;s comment, I think that even the hedonist will eventually have to come to term with the truth about his life (i.e. it is unsatisfying and empty) because his way of life leads not only to moral but also to physical decay.  It is when a person reaches rock bottom that they can, though not always do, realize their intense need for God.  A great example of this kind of experience, leading to conversion, is St. Ignatius of Loyola, who after being injured in battle and deprived of his source of evident fulfillment, being a soldier, turned to God in his emptiness and weakness.

The other option is, of course, despair.  We see despair become all too prevalent in our modern society.  Indeed, if this is the most compelling argument in favor of God&#039;s existence, the most compelling one &lt;i&gt;against&lt;/i&gt; it is not any scientific or biological case but rather the one from the fact of evil in our world.  People see so much suffering and refuse to see how their desires for happiness could be fulfilled; they cannot reconcile an all-good God with all the hurt and harm that goes on every day.  I think the only response is the response of hope, which this demonstration of St. Thomas Aquinas displays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, very nice post.  In response to Paul&#8217;s comment, I think that even the hedonist will eventually have to come to term with the truth about his life (i.e. it is unsatisfying and empty) because his way of life leads not only to moral but also to physical decay.  It is when a person reaches rock bottom that they can, though not always do, realize their intense need for God.  A great example of this kind of experience, leading to conversion, is St. Ignatius of Loyola, who after being injured in battle and deprived of his source of evident fulfillment, being a soldier, turned to God in his emptiness and weakness.</p>
<p>The other option is, of course, despair.  We see despair become all too prevalent in our modern society.  Indeed, if this is the most compelling argument in favor of God&#8217;s existence, the most compelling one <i>against</i> it is not any scientific or biological case but rather the one from the fact of evil in our world.  People see so much suffering and refuse to see how their desires for happiness could be fulfilled; they cannot reconcile an all-good God with all the hurt and harm that goes on every day.  I think the only response is the response of hope, which this demonstration of St. Thomas Aquinas displays.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Hartung</title>
		<link>http://www.theforwardlook.com/2009/04/the-argument-from-desire/comment-page-1/#comment-809</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Hartung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theforwardlook.com/?p=670#comment-809</guid>
		<description>Sam wrote:
&quot;Although this last premise does not declare the existence of the Christian God, or any God in particular, it still awakens the heart to begin searching for the truth about reality.&quot;

This is the weakness of the argument in general (not that it doesn&#039;t have a kind of compelling force still)- that it doesn&#039;t reveal anything about God Himself, and what it says about the human condition is subjective (to some, not me).  Further, if I follow you correctly, it may not &#039;awaken the heart...for the truth about reality&#039; as much as it could place a premium upon discovering/crystallizing one&#039;s recurring, carnal passions.  

Point #2 could be considered by many sinners to be an unnecessary inference since none of us have universal experience (they don&#039;t argue against this ultra-desire, but against the rather negative assessment that it&#039;s beyond our grasp in the flesh).  And so, the vain pursuit continues since the hedonist is never challenged at his core of what is true and good in itself.  Many simply mask over the hollow nature of their pursuits with hope of ultimate ecstasy (somewhere, somehow) in the very kinds of things that are causing the hollow in the first place (perhaps more or better versions will do the trick next time?).  

Why such hope over what has brought a measure of despair?  Why such suicidal optimism?  There is no taste or savor of the divine (that is detectable to their palette).  When confronted with a measure of the truth, it is perceived as an obstruction to their pursuit and must be discarded out of hand.  To offer that these need not be in conflict if understood properly, the fork in the road is made plain: do they love darkness or do the love light?

It is at this point where ultimate desire itself becomes the gauge by which sons of light and sons of darkness are manifest.  Your argument becomes quite relevant to those who are at the discovery level of the vanity of this life apart from the satisfaction of Christ.  Conversely, it becomes relevant in discerning those that prefer hollow darkness too.

So while the argument doesn&#039;t sew up the human race into one collectively able-to-test body of truth seekers (via the God-shaped void), it does, however, present a screed or filter to see who is really who.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam wrote:<br />
&#8220;Although this last premise does not declare the existence of the Christian God, or any God in particular, it still awakens the heart to begin searching for the truth about reality.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the weakness of the argument in general (not that it doesn&#8217;t have a kind of compelling force still)- that it doesn&#8217;t reveal anything about God Himself, and what it says about the human condition is subjective (to some, not me).  Further, if I follow you correctly, it may not &#8216;awaken the heart&#8230;for the truth about reality&#8217; as much as it could place a premium upon discovering/crystallizing one&#8217;s recurring, carnal passions.  </p>
<p>Point #2 could be considered by many sinners to be an unnecessary inference since none of us have universal experience (they don&#8217;t argue against this ultra-desire, but against the rather negative assessment that it&#8217;s beyond our grasp in the flesh).  And so, the vain pursuit continues since the hedonist is never challenged at his core of what is true and good in itself.  Many simply mask over the hollow nature of their pursuits with hope of ultimate ecstasy (somewhere, somehow) in the very kinds of things that are causing the hollow in the first place (perhaps more or better versions will do the trick next time?).  </p>
<p>Why such hope over what has brought a measure of despair?  Why such suicidal optimism?  There is no taste or savor of the divine (that is detectable to their palette).  When confronted with a measure of the truth, it is perceived as an obstruction to their pursuit and must be discarded out of hand.  To offer that these need not be in conflict if understood properly, the fork in the road is made plain: do they love darkness or do the love light?</p>
<p>It is at this point where ultimate desire itself becomes the gauge by which sons of light and sons of darkness are manifest.  Your argument becomes quite relevant to those who are at the discovery level of the vanity of this life apart from the satisfaction of Christ.  Conversely, it becomes relevant in discerning those that prefer hollow darkness too.</p>
<p>So while the argument doesn&#8217;t sew up the human race into one collectively able-to-test body of truth seekers (via the God-shaped void), it does, however, present a screed or filter to see who is really who.</p>
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		<title>By: Becka</title>
		<link>http://www.theforwardlook.com/2009/04/the-argument-from-desire/comment-page-1/#comment-783</link>
		<dc:creator>Becka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 02:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theforwardlook.com/?p=670#comment-783</guid>
		<description>Nice job Sam!  Its now apparent where your dad gets his talent;)

I do think however, my love for flying (as in my dreams) is an innate desire to be rid of the weight of life that must first be lived out here, in the fallen world. Then comes the exchange. The weight of glory.

Superman will be sooooo jealous.

I hope you will keep borrowing this blog space!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice job Sam!  Its now apparent where your dad gets his talent;)</p>
<p>I do think however, my love for flying (as in my dreams) is an innate desire to be rid of the weight of life that must first be lived out here, in the fallen world. Then comes the exchange. The weight of glory.</p>
<p>Superman will be sooooo jealous.</p>
<p>I hope you will keep borrowing this blog space!</p>
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		<title>By: Gabe</title>
		<link>http://www.theforwardlook.com/2009/04/the-argument-from-desire/comment-page-1/#comment-782</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 02:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theforwardlook.com/?p=670#comment-782</guid>
		<description>Great article, tell Sam congrats, it is a very mature work. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, tell Sam congrats, it is a very mature work.</p>
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